intro here/not pictures, is taken from the
and was publ.Sunday, March 25, 2007 with the headline:
ETs ARE AMONG US
Scholarly historical UFO accounts
suggest Human-looking Extraterrestrials living among us
Compiled by Dr. Michael Salla et al
A University of Mexico tenured medical professor who met with
an extraterrestrial, posing as an ordinary civilian, helps
corroborate claims of Human Extraterrestrials living among us.
This professor was also a senior member of the Mexican Atomic
Energy Commission. The Professor used the pseudonym of ‘Prof
Hernandez’ and worked with a Mexican journalist, Zitha
Rodriguez to release details of his contact in the early
It all began in 1972, with a voice in his head, leading him to
scientific breakthroughs in his own medical research in
immunology which brought him special recognition by his peers.
Professor Hernandez knew the ideas were not his own, because
he had no background in developing them. They came to his mind
full blown, as though someone who knew perfectly well what he
was talking about had explained them to him in detail.
Later in that year he was approached by the author of that
voice in his head, and it turned out to be a beautiful
extraterrestrial woman who said he could call her Elyense,
which he changed to LYA for short. She met him several times
on the University Campus before she went any further.
LYA wore a dark pantsuit of some very fine material that the
professor could not quite identify. She had dark eyes and wore
dark hair shoulder length. She walked our streets and breathed
our ambient air with no difficulty. She even drank fruit juice
with him at a sidewalk lunch table as they talked. She was
obviously far better educated than Hernandez, and he was
considered one of his country's foremost scientists.
When the professor questioned LYA's extreme intelligence and
the source of her superior knowledge, she took him into her
confidence and told him that she was not from this planet --
that she came from another world in a group of stars we called
Andromeda. He thought she meant the Andromeda Galaxy at first.
On a subsequent meeting she guided him to a secluded desert
area outside of Mexico City and took him aboard her
disc-shaped spacecraft. There, she showed him many scientific
wonders, and at one point took him to a viewing screen where
she worked some controls and brought up an image of a
star-field in the screen. She showed him some guide stars in
Cassiopeia and in Andromeda Constellation, and then showed him
where her home sun was in relation to those other stars.
LYA told Mr. Hernandez that there were many space-races far
more advanced than men of Earth who were also coming here for
exploration, observation, and study of our humanity about to
enter a point where we would either join others in space
travel and exploration, or we would eliminate ourselves in a
suicidal employment of our primitive technology. We had become
a society of some interest to many.
LYA picked the professor up and took him on trips on her
spacecraft on four occasions. One of them was a small five
meter diameter explorer. Another was a 60 metre intermediate
ship that carried a number of the smaller ones. And one time
he was taken to a much larger mother-ship that was a mobile
support base for several of the intermediate class. She said
that they had many teams working in our solar system and here,
and they had many Earth contactees. She told the professor of
another contactee being used by a different contact team from
her society who lived in Chicago. His name was Thomas Haskins,
and he was a black man who lived in the South Side. Prof.
Hernandez ultimately met Haskins and they compared notes.
LYA also told the professor of other space-traveling races
carrying out operations on this planet, including, remarkably,
some contacts by "Pliones" with a one -armed man who
lives in Switzerland. This was mentioned to the professor in
1976, before anything on the Pleiades contacts in Switzerland
had been released outside of a very small local group of
people around that man.
Hernandez story was investigated by Lt. Col. Wendelle Stevens
who corresponded with Zitha Rodriquez. Stevens found many
similarities with other contactee cases even though Hernandez
could not have known of these. He decided to translate
Rodriquez book of Hernandez experiences and eventually
concluded that Hernandez was credible.
As in the Adamski and Menger cases, Hernandez reveals that his
extraterrestrial contact could easily blend into the Mexican
population. In contrast to the Adamski and Menger cases, Lya
was alone and did not appear to have a buddy.
While she did not own a car, she knew how to navigate Mexico
City’s road system to ensure that Hernandez could reach the
destination of her flying vehicle. Her ability to meet with
Hernandez in city locations and knowledge of how to travel to
rural areas, again suggests familiarity with the location and
customs of the native population.
It is not only contactees that have discussed
extraterrestrials living among us, there are also the
testimonies of highly credible whistleblowers who make similar
In 1984, with his contacts still going on, Professor Hernandez
could no longer be reached by Zitha Rodriguez, or others
researchers who had made contact with him as a contactee, and
nothing of him has been discovered of him since, though both
private and police detectives have continually searched.
A full 224 page report on these contacts has been published as
UFO Contact from Andromeda, by Rodriguez-Stevens. Some of it
The Beginning (further
LYA, a woman of extraterrestrial
origin, beautiful, intelligent and noble, arrived at a most unexpected
moment in my life. Nevertheless this came to pass several years before I
understood the magnitude of her presence on our planet Earth.
I was able to count almost fifty
years (of age) when I saw her for the first time. I was already at that
time a confirmed skeptic of all that related to parapsychology,
telekinesis, and incredible phenomena such as spontaneous combustion, but
above all I believed it a waste of time to believe in the existence of
extraterrestrial beings. I shared the opinion of many scientists
concerning evolution. Also I had carried on long conversations with
astronomer colleagues who had assured me of never having seen anything
floating or flying in space that were not our satellites or spacecraft
sent into space by man (of Earth).
My mind was blank on this aspect.
It began to fill as I matured and I knew that as a university professor I
could not give credit to that which lately they have called pseudo science.
I had not only commented on this with my students concerning themes of
importance, but with my own colleagues as well. I felt completely
accomplished, absolutely satisfied with life. However I knew that I was
beginning to reach maturity because my thoughts returned frequently to the
past, but my present was really fulfilled. I had the privilege of being
counselor to the majority of my students.
Into this circumstantial arena
she came. LYA appeared in my life so suddenly that I had to let several
years elapse to begin to describe the presence and teachings of her.
I felt at the time that the point
of departure was not so far away and that the end of my existence
approached irresistibly like the goal of the runner or like the set of the
sun in the west.
I believed that my professional
stage was finalizing without imagining in the least that LYA would bring
to my existence something for which to fight.
It came in the moment in which
the love for things became indelible. It came at the time when
circumstances move one emotionally, the age in which nothing is rejected
and on the other hand, yes, all is possible.
At this time I feel thankful with
the world, with God, for all that which has been granted me without my
having merited it.
My parents had wrapped me in
diapers soft as silk at birth and the first air that I breathed had a
pleasing scent of roses from the enormous garden that surrounded the house.
Now I have three beautiful children and wife. what could I possibly desire?
Thinking on this I waited, with resignation, the winter of my life. The
fruit of my existence had filled my life of satisfactions. Each day that
passed teaching classes at the university gave me the satisfaction of
having sown the seeds of knowledge, and that precisely this had been my
great opportunity. my walk through the wide roads of this world had not
As tenured professor of the
University, and as investigator of nuclear mathematical physics, I knew
that I had arrived at the limits of my professional life. I perceived the
respect of my superiors. Years before I had received a national prize in
Thus... in these circumstances
was when LYA came to me, and I must admit; that since then never left my
mind nor my heart. I was not a youth easily influenced. I was well rooted
in my habits and likewise as well in my opinions.
But, how did this all begin? Was
there anything magic in the encounter? Was it accidental or intentional? I
14 November 1972
'Today, Tuesday, while I was at
the University attending a conference on odontopediatrics, I saw her for
the first time. I was standing at the back of the room. There was a
beautiful young woman of slightly oriental characteristics, white skin and
slender body. Her hair was long and dark, and fell languidly over her
shoulders. she was dressed entirely in black, wearing tailored slacks and
blouse of the same material, which to me seemed like laminated plastic.
She had persistent light green eyes. It seemed like her eyes were pointed
directly at me and I could feel her gaze even in the obscurity of the room.
There was an instant in which our looks coincided and I felt a strange
chill run over my whole body.
Despite my vain attempts to
concentrate on the exposition of the class, I could not. In my mind the
figure of that young woman, as enigmatic as fascinating, remained etched.
But when I again looked toward
the group I noticed that she was no longer there. I searched the room to
see if I could find her seated in some other place, but no, she was not
there. I looked toward the door and it occurred to me that this had been
closed. At that time I did not deem it important.
The first shadows of evening had
already appeared when the exposition ended. I went to the parking lot and
got into my car. I was experiencing a strange sensation of wellbeing and I
unconsciously turned on the radio to listen for the news, but it did not
work right. I could hear only heavy static. "Perhaps the
antenna", I thought. But, upon checking this I found it all right. I
tried to synchronize the aparatus without success. I could tune nothing
I was about to turn the radio off
when I heard a new noise.. more new static and then silence. After that I
began to clearly hear a hollow, metallic voice, that slowly began to
articulate words in perfect Spanish.
Finally the voice spoke without
interference and said in perfect accent: You are connected to our
frequency, earthman. You have entered the primary phase and it will be
easy in what follows which I want to repeat... you are going to have news...
I was disconcerted, but at that
moment I did not relate the one thing with the other. Later, some time
after the voice had disappeared I continued thinking and trying to
discover the significance of this.
The radio remained dead for a
little more than a half hour. After the same manner that the frequency had
gone, I heard a melody. The route to my house seemed long, but later I
noticed with surprise that I had been making big circles, as if,
subconsciously, I did not want to get to my destination.
I shook my head which had begun
to feel heavy, trying to dismiss these ideas.
At that time I did not (connect)
the voice of the message with the woman I had seen at the University. A
little while later I was comfortably seated in my favorite chair with a
refreshment at hand, reading, when I fell into a profound sleep.
18 December 1972
more than a month passed. I had
almost forgotten the encounter with the woman, as attractive as mysterious.
Today I got up without ever imagining that I would have another encounter
with her. This time it was in a place completely different. It happened in
an open air restaurant.. along the 'avenida Insurgentes.'
While I was breakfasting with
Carlos, a friend and colleague for years, I looked toward the entrance
door and I saw her.. .yes, I saw her. In the light of day her beauty stood
out. In her were combined characteristics as exotic as natural, but her
personality was such that she could project not only that sureness, which
always characterized her, but upon seeing her I felt a mixture of
tenderness, of knowledge, of peace and internal tranquility.
She was accompanied by a man
dressed in a uniform with an insignia on the left side of his breast. It
was a gold triangle inside of which was a blue circle. The man was
stylishly good looking also and a little taller than her. LYA must measure
more than 1.90 meters. He almost touched the top of the door with his
Instinctively I got to my feet.
The look of Carlos and the ridiculousness of my reaction made me remember
that I should not be so impulsive.
"What happened?" asked
"Pardon me, I thought it was
another person whom I have not seen in some time", I said lieing.
At five in the afternoon I had to
teach a class, and I looked at my watch. It was scarcely ten in the
morning. I needed to know who she was, but why such sudden interest
renewed in a woman of much beauty but of whom I knew absolutely nothing.
After we finished eating Carlos
and I left for the University. I decided along the way that I would begin
to investigate that beautiful woman.
I reviewed my listings (of
students) but there was no new student such as her, nor did I have
knowledge of the presence of any person as an auditor in my class.
For then I decided that here I
would begin to take a certain care to only see her. Of one thing I was
convinced.. .she was real; she was not a vision created by my mind. She
It was not until the 12. of
January when I had my third encounter. The classroom was darkened. This
was because I was projecting slides to illustrate my lecture. While I was
running the transparencies she entered. At the moment I was stunned. Here
again was the woman, always dressed in black. She had entered at the
moment I was discussing the most important point. Perhaps my students had
not observed my disturbance in the obscurity of the room and also because
the transparencies were occupying their attention. I felt her gaze,
seeming that her eyes had their own light. She stared fixedly, without
blinking. But far from feeling nervousness, her gaze infused an
indescribable calm and inner peace. I was trying to calculate her age. I
thought she might be thirty years old. That was a little old to be my
student, but considering that there are people who study for two or more
careers, this detail could pass unnoticed. When the class ended, I turned
on the lights only to observe that she had disappeared in the shadow of
I opened a path through my
students, but when I finally could get out she was no longer there.
I asked a youth who had been near
the door if he had seen a woman of her characteristics. He looked at me
like one would observe a bacterium under a microscope and glancing with
sneer answered negatively. During my 25 years as a professor never has
anything like this happened to me before. I felt grieved. I blamed myself.
I am fifty years old and I am acting like an adolescent in his first
passes as a conquistador.
I went back into the room, picked
up my books and secured the projector and transparencies and left. I still
had to walk a good distance before getting to my automobile. Meanwhile I
I got in my car and headed for my
Ever since then and without my
suspecting it, someone in some part of the Universe has been making plans
to establish some kind of friendship with me... But, was my imagination
more fantastic than I could have dreamed? And why a septic? Why me?
Thus began to knit in turn for me
the maze (of knowledge) that filled my consciousness, of doubts, of
illusion... but still it lacked the most important part.
from CHAPTER 2:
Our First Discussion
22 December 1974
Due to the intense work that we
were engaged in at the laboratory of the University, some colleagues and I
had agreed to finalize all the tests which would take us to the end still
in time for vacation. This was very important as we were working on a new
The empty classrooms were cold
and full of silence. The air felt lighter and the gardens lie resting from
their normal activity.
While analyzing a cell under the
microscope, I imagined that the solitude might inspire us to carry on our
labor. While awaiting the cellular reaction, I leaned my head against the
window to feel the weak rays of the sun that came through the glass. It
was a cold day, but absolutely clear.. beautiful.
While looking toward the hallway...
I saw her! Standing out beside a door, she looked directly toward where I
was. She gave me the impression that I had known her all my life.
As I looked at her I felt a relaxation such that it produced in me an
incredible happiness. Emotionally reinvigorated should be the word. And if
I had sang and danced, it would not have seemed strange to me.
I experienced also an undefinable
association between her and I, still at a distance. Her presence seemed
completely familiar to me. It was as if something in my interior awaited
her without having advised me.
I turned my work over to a
colleague and went down, a little to be sure she was still there and
another such impulse that I didn't know what, which attracted me
irresistibly toward that place.
At two or three meters I stopped.
She smiled, but in her smile there was no evil, nor any coquettness. It
was a sweet look and therefore a candid smile, like one who greets with
pleasure the return of a friend.
"Good day, professor."
She greeted me.
"Good day, senorita."
Was my response.
I looked at her profoundly while
she extended her hand.
"It may seem strange but to
me you seem so familiar, so well known, that I would judge that you and I
have already had a pact at a level of friendship." I told her.
"Professor, I have come to
look for you. I have tried to make these encounters, having come precisely
to see you. The strangeness is not that you have expected to see me, but
that you would have the occasion to see and hear afterward."
"You have come to find me?"
I asked, full of surprise. "Thus it is. My name is LYA and on the
Earth, as well as in other parts of the Universe, my mission is to
investigate all types of intelligent life, it's association with the
planet, it's adaptability, and the bilogical-social prolongation in it's
"What are you trying to say?
What other parts of the Universe?"
"I shall explain, professor.
I am not of this planet. I come from one that is thousands of light years
from Earth. I am part of an investigative group."
"How?" I asked, still
without believing what I was hearing.
"Yes, I know that you do not
believe now this that I tell you. Members of the group to which I belong
and I have tried to open telepathic communication, but we felt that this
could have disturbed you a little emotionally, for which we decided on
direct communication. You are an objective and analytical man. It will be
very difficult for us to overcome your scepticism. You yourself at the end
of all this will be able to analyze with empathy all that I have said to
you. We know that you do not believe all that you receive through the
bioelectric telepathic stimulus. You are an honest receiver but our
intentions would not change the results if we did not speak to you
"What is it that you are
intending? To make me leave my way of life? I have heard of persons who
spend their life jumping from one fantasy to another, but what you say
surpasses the limits if imagination." I said getting angry.
"No professor, I know that
for you it is difficult to believe, but finally you will accept our
existence, which is not as brainbusting as the existence of the human
being on the earth. Or, do you believe perhaps that a being of this planet
would be able to doubt your existence still while I am looking at you?"
Momentarily I felt confused.
"Pardon.. .1 must go to my
work." I said in a manner of excuse.
"look professor. Peer
directly into my eyes and think of something that interests you... or
something that is not fixed in your cerebral neurons, though being
imaginative. . .to yourself."
"and that, why?"
"I can know what you think."
I laughed incredulously.
"Try it." She insisted.
I could not lose anything. I
closed my eyes and in my mind I began to pronounce the Greek alphabet.
"Oh, no professor," she
said, "the Greek Alphabet is too simple. Think of something else. Ask
me a question in your mind."
I mentally asked, "Is it
true that you come from another planet?"
She answered me, "Yes."
I could have been surprised, or
perhaps she could have made me nervous. Nevertheless I felt profoundly
relaxed and also experimented with unusual mental concentration.
"If in truth you come from
another planet, how is it that you speak perfectly in Spanish?" I
"On my world they take very
little time to learn a language. We dedicate ourselves to knowledge. It
takes us very little time to know a planet in all it's totality."
"What do you want or what do
they want of me?" I asked. "Not only of you," she responded,
"we hope that we will be given the opportunity to explain all that
has been discussed with us. Because of our presence here on Earth, many
are afraid, terrified. They look on us as divine beings, celestials, but
we nevertheless are like you, with some variations. We love life. It
seems to us an affront to the same Universe that the intelligent beings
live opting for the mistaken line. They express themselves with violence
and live in ignorance. But the rescue of worlds such as yours is not
permitted, at least to us. Nor are we permitted to defend other people who
live in constant bellicosity and live in constant fear of other people
through extended frontier lines.
Your planet has no overseer. No
part of the Earth carries this distinction. That is what we study, we
analyze the life, also of planets like yours. We study the beings who
possess a short life, like you for example, and also we study the human
reaction faced with death."
"Why do you say planets like
ours?" I inquired.
"Because on planets like
ours death does not exist, or there are almost no deaths to speak of."
"And for this you have come?
Perhaps you are representatives of a new religion for which you are
proseliting? I must say I am feeling little thanks thinking that I am the
victim of some scheme."
"No, professor.. .don't
think that. In the same manner that you are carrying out an investigation
of cellular reaction to obtain, or to try to obtain, a vaccine, in the
same way we work to erradicate many sjmilar factors that could prejudice a
great nubber of races which, distributed throughout the Universe, do not
know or have lost the capacity of knowledge concerning the eradication of
"How do you know what I am
working on?" I asked in surprise.
"I know much about you. Ask
and I will respond."
"How is it that there are
races that do not die? How old are you?"
"The cellular degeneration
brought as a consequence of decrepitude or old age produces a constant
anxiety in the human being. The fear of dying or to cease being is
reflected in the fear that man has of death. Many races have found the way
to prolong life. This for you would be a secret that has ceased being such
in my world, in which biological prolongation is no secret, but now
universal knowledge. About my age, I am young in relation to many of my
racetype. I am almost nine hundred years old.. .or nine centuries if you
prefer it that way. I will respond to many of your questions, but for now
I desire that you meditate on our discussion, that you not comment on, not
for now. I may surprise you that at times I am near to you, very near. For
now I want you to know that, when our conversation is still telepathic you
can sometimes produce it yourself. Our commination will be as direct as
"And if I deny it?" I
asked, still incredulous, though no less flattered to be conversing with
such a beautiful woman.
She looked at me a long time,
reading perhaps each of my thoughts. Then she said:
"we not deny it professor,
you are educated. The same as I, you try to apply all the physiological
knowledge that is at hand to know me still more. You fear that I am
playing a prank on you, and desire to submit me to some study to
understand my mind. I, professor, could refuse to respond and nevertheless
I have come to this, to converse with you about your world, about the
future of this fabulous planet called Earth. I can tell you that not only
we have been visiting your Earth. There are many civilizations which have
done this, and almost all are in agreement that your world is a privileged
place. For now, professor, be a little calm, relax, .... and above all
guard our secret. In due time we can talk."
She extended her hand in goodbye.
I wanted to take myself out of all this. I felt fear. It seemed to me that
I could be stopped at a point from which I might be easily pushed. was I
the victim of a joke? Who would be interested in playing such on me?
Perhaps someone who well knew my points of view concerning beings of other
worlds…. but, are they reading my mind this way? Speaking Greek also?
This was still at the point of begin-..... the rest, the unknown, the
surprising, the incredible would come with the passage of the months, with
the transpiring of years.. .and nobody would leave off questioning me. Why
From chapter 3
Lethal belt around the Planet
22 April 1975
I did not ask for it... nor did I
even think about it, but nevertheless I am travelling in the spaceship
I had gone to participate in a
conference on the theme of effective neutralizers for anesthesia. That
afternoon I felt particularly exhausted. I had been speaking for almost
two hours without interruption.
At the end of the lecture I still
had, among my notes, several unanswered questions.
Some students and I went out into
the corridor, still talking a little as we parted and went our separate
ways. As I headed for the parking lot I scarcely imagined that LYA was
waiting for me in the car. She smiled candidly. My expression of surprise
must have seemed amusing.
"Hello", she said in
"Hello", I responded.
"Are you in much of a hurry?"
"No, it is only that I want to rest", I
"Would you like to go on a
mission as copilot?"
I introduced the key into the
doorlock, still without answering. I placed my papers and my portfolios in
the rear seat and sat down. I started the motor and turned to look at her.
"Today has been an
especially tiring day. All morning at the University, lunch at midday, and
all afternoon in conference... Couldn't this be another day?" I asked
It was quiet for a moment and I turned to look
toward the exit. In a low voice she said:
"It is important. I can not
assure you that you will have another opportunity like this."
"And this mission, is it
very far?" I asked.
"That depends very much on how your concepts
of time and space are developed.
"Very Well", I said as I locked the
door ., 'if it is not too far, I accept."
How far it was I could not
imagine since for her, time and distance do not exist; nor had she
considered whether it was too late or too early to undertake some action.
I never saw her look at a watch. Nor did I know that neither space
nor distance needed any hurry. ..... her people, her folk and perhaps
beings of other worlds with the same characteristics as her, do not know
the limitations of this so-called time, distance or space. For her, to
exist is it, simply, without the limits of timetable or distance. LYA
lived at entire liberty.
Enroute, while I was stopped for
a red light semaphore, she said to me:
"Close your eyes."
I obeyed. I felt her hand touch
my forehead. At that instant the muscles of my face relaxed, my head
cleared, my mind concentrated and my body little by little began to
recover its vigor, all this at the contact of her hand.
"There it is", she said
signaling the light turned green, "let us go."
"Toward where?" I asked
"Go toward the north, I will
After 2 hours and a half this way,
we came to a trunk route between Hidalgo and Oneretaro. We stopped at a
separated place where there was an abundance of cactus. It was quite late.
I looked at my watch: 9:30 p.m. Now I began to feel anxiety about the
prospect of a possible assault. Again I was tired, or could it be
nervousness? Again the hand on my forehead. Once more the vigour
recuperated. All was silent.
"We are going to park here."
She said indicating a place to one side of the road.
"We're going to get out here?"
I asked in surprise, "To leave the car in this place could be
dangerous for you and for me too." I said, admitting my cowardice.
"We have to walk toward
there." She said while her finger indicated a place that could not be
distinguished in the dark.
"But, LYA, this car is my
major possession, and if it is stolen, how will we return?"
"You don't have to worry. We
have avoided anybody being able to see your car from any angle."
I put my hand down on the car.
She took my hand at the wrist and I began to experience a genuine
confidence. I let go of my fears, my worries, even the most hidden, or
those of distant times that live in the most profound regions of my psyche.
At that moment I felt an indescribable happiness.
we began to walk.
"To where do we go?" I
"We will fly around your
world." She responded.
I looked at her, trying to
discover if this was some kind of a joke. Her face had aquired an unusual
seriousness for her.
"Now?" I asked,
"Couldn't this wait?"
"what you will see today.. .can
not wait, professor."
It was unusual that I would go at
the hand of LYA, always with me behind her, bewildered more that it was
dark, and opening my eyes wider at each step. For her it was routine; for
me everything was surprising.
A round object of more or less
three meters diameter was some meters in front of us. LYA took out an
apparatus of metal that was like a small box of cigarettes and pressed a
button. At that moment the door of that ship opened itself from below and
we went through into the interior by means of a small ladder. We sat down.
There were only two seats. She sat down before what would be a computer
console with bars of colors (illuminated as if they were in operation).
She touched a small lever with various buttons and pressed one. The ladder
retracted through the small port and the opening closed. The ship silently
rose into the air. In front of us a ''window'' opened as if someone parted
a veil, and there appeared in front of my surprised eyes the lights of the
cities. After that tiny points and supposedly oceans. From that I deduced
that we were flying at a fantastic velocity.
The Earth withdrew more and more
and thus I could contemplate the night, the stars, and later dozens of
satellites of all types orbiting the Earth.
Far beyond was a light of pale
blue or lilac that marked the line that divides night and day, and I
understood that all is not completely dark nor is all absolutely light on
my world. I looked at LYA who, absorbed, seemed to be looking likewise at
"This is a voyage of
exploration", she said, "not precisely routine - though to you
it might seem so, she said…..
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